(my initial e-mail was prompted as a response to people complaining about how AA pushes the ideal of powerlessness over alcohol. This internet group is centered on people in recovery who do NOT LIKE the AA program)
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To group
Many people bash AA because they can't get over this powerless thing. Step 1 in the AA Big Book does NOT say that we ARE (and will always be) powerless over alcohol. It says "We admitted we WERE powerless over alcohol...." . If we are following a program (whatever it is) that works for us and keeps us sober, we MUST have SOME level of power over alcohol. We do not have complete power (for alcohol is still dangerous for us), but we are no longer powerless.
Smeer
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Hi Smeer
You said - "We do not have complete power (for alcohol is still dangerous for us)"
Speaking for myself only, I DO and always had complete power over my drinking.
Do you think this is the right place to be quoting from the "AA Big Book"?
Who does have the complete control if we don't?
Take Care “X”
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Hi “X”
I appreciate your response to my powerless e-mail. I am a very open-minded person who gets much out of open discussion with others. What I would like to do is respond to each of the 3 statements that you made one at a time.
Statement 1 “Speaking for myself only, I DO and always had complete power over my drinking.”
I guess the first thing I should do in responding to your first statement is to try to better define what I mean when I’m speaking of power/powerlessness. I went to a few dictionaries and pulled the definitions that best describe my understanding of “power” in the context that we are talking about. There are a few different aspects of the words meaning.
Power -
1. a) The ability or capacity to do something
b) The ability to do or act; capability of doing or accomplishing something.
If you are speaking power in ONLY this aspect, then I agree with you when you state that you always have “complete control” over your drinking (or not drinking). When I discuss power (or powerlessness) in the situation we are referring to, I am focusing the other aspects that continue to better define the meaning of this word -
2. Control and influence - the possession of control or command over someone or something
3. The ability or capacity to perform or act effectively
4. A person or thing that possesses or exercises authority or influence.
When I use the word power/powerlessness, I am thinking more in terms of control, or lack of. Power to me is not just the ability to drink or not, but the ability to control the choice to drink or not. If you choose to drink -
1 On impulse (without thinking it through)
2 For reasons not rational/logical because of an unhealthy emotional/physical/mental state
If you choose not to drink -
1. Out of continuous self-discipline based on strong feelings of fear, helplessness, or hate for alcohol (remaining in an unhealthy emotional/physical/mental state
2. Because you found new ways to delude yourself (higher power)
3. Taking away choice, by surrendering to a recovery program
In definition #4 - power can be a thing that possesses or exercises influence. The way I look at it, that sounds like alcohol has SOME power over me. If this is true, I can’t claim “complete power” over it.
Can you really say that you have “complete power over your drinking?
The broad definition of “power” includes control. Ability without control is NOT complete power.
Control -
1. The act or power of controlling; regulation; domination or command. The ability to run something: ability or authority to manage or direct something
2. To restrain or limit: to limit or restrict the occurrence or expression of somebody or something, especially to keep it from appearing, increasing, or spreading
3. To hold in check; curb
Statement 2 “Do you think this is the right place to be quoting from the "AA Big Book"?
I have so many differences of opinion with the AA 12 step recovery program, that I could probably write a book on them all. I’ll just mention one here - for a program that preaches “open-mindedness”, they don’t want to hear you share anything that goes outside of the Big Book. It is “their way or the highway“. In my e-mail, it might have been the first time I ever quoted anything out of the Big Book - I just did so to make a point about how they push the idea of powerlessness down your throat and, as usual, don’t really know what they’re even talking about. I thought that I would try LSR to find people who are open-minded. I don’t like AA fanatics and am now finding that I don’t like anti-AA fanatics either.
Statement 3 “Who does have the complete control if we don't?”
What makes you think that anyone, or anything has complete control - I certainly don’t. Even the people who believe in a “higher power” make the statement that God allows us to retain our free will - so they can’t really say (if they have any sense) that God even has complete control.
We may disagree on things, but I have complete respect for everyone who has found a way to stay clean and sober.
Take care Smeer
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I’m sure that this will continue, so I’ll follow it up in comments under this topic.
Stay tuned!!!
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